[00:03:49] <monty_hall> evening
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[01:47:37] <lwjglbot> nightly: LWJGL-linux32 #1643 (stable) <http://www.newdawnsoftware.com/hudson/job/LWJGL-linux32/1643/> || LWJGL-linux64 #1646 (stable) <http://www.newdawnsoftware.com/hudson/job/LWJGL-linux64/1646/> || LWJGL-opensolaris #1647 (stable) <http://www.newdawnsoftware.com/hudson/job/LWJGL-opensolaris/1647/> || LWJGL-win64 #1629 (stable) <http://www.newdawnsoftware.com/hudson/job/LWJGL-win64/1629/>
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[01:52:19] <kappaTwo> looks like the Ardor3D ppl have a new project http://www.gooengine.com/
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[02:17:39] <lwjglbot> nightly: LWJGL #1545 (stable) <http://www.newdawnsoftware.com/hudson/job/LWJGL/1545/> || LWJGL-OSX #1643 (stable) <http://www.newdawnsoftware.com/hudson/job/LWJGL-OSX/1643/> || LWJGL-win32 #1630 (stable) <http://www.newdawnsoftware.com/hudson/job/LWJGL-win32/1630/>
[02:33:31] <ra4king> http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/249243/rim_offers_free_playbook_to_attract_android_developers.html
[02:33:34] <ra4king> free RIM playbook :D
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[03:14:17] <OBudista> do anyone know somewhere I can get a sample project of VBO with LWJGL?
[03:14:35] <OBudista> I want to find out if the problem is my code or if it is some sort of bug with my card or something
[03:14:54] <OBudista> but can't find any completed code to try
[03:15:33] <kappaOne> yes
[03:15:39] <kappaOne> see the lwjgl tests
[03:16:42] <OBudista> where? in the wiki?
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[03:17:18] <kappaOne> http://java-game-lib.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/java-game-lib/trunk/LWJGL/src/java/org/lwjgl/test/opengl/
[03:17:39] <OBudista> okay, I'll check that out, thanks
[03:50:06] <ra4king> kappaOne: aren't you in UK?
[03:50:22] <kappaOne> yes
[03:50:59] <kappaOne> why do you ask?
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[03:58:29] <monty_hall> evening
[03:59:01] <ra4king> kappaOne: what are you doing up so late? :P
[03:59:12] <kappaOne> some late coding :)
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[04:16:01] <ra4king> kappaOne: ooh what are you working on?
[04:16:54] <kappaOne> nothing special
[04:16:59] <kappaOne> just playing with some shaders
[04:19:38] <ra4king> sweet
[04:19:53] <ra4king> god i love having 16GB of RAm
[04:19:54] <ra4king> RAM*
[04:20:27] <ra4king> Eclipse, Visual Studio, couple tabs of Google Chrome, many background apps, memory intensive server, IRC client, and BF3 open.....still 40-50%
[04:22:05] <monty_hall> :)
[04:22:07] <monty_hall> me too
[04:22:19] <monty_hall> ocean of ram.
[04:22:30] <monty_hall> I remember when it was $56 per mb
[04:29:15] <ra4king> monty_hall: PER MB?!?!?
[04:29:39] <ra4king> monty_hall: I paid $40 for my first 2x4GB kit, and $30 for my second 2x4GB kit!
[04:29:46] <ra4king> and they're all DDR3 1600Mhz!
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[04:48:34] * monty_hall smacks ra4king with a rancid beaver :P
[04:49:46] <ra4king> monty_hall: ?
[04:50:20] <monty_hall> I was compelled to do it for no reason.
[04:57:17] <nbf> they gave up the java
[04:57:51] <nbf> its funny how now that java is pretty fast you have to switch to something sloooow like javascript in the browser
[04:57:56] <nbf> to get support anywhere
[04:57:59] <nbf> gooooo technology
[05:04:48] <ra4king> nbf: who gave up java?
[05:08:22] <nbf> the ardor3d guys
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[05:17:07] <djdduty> lwjgl still has openAL included, right?
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[05:22:20] <atrus6> yeah
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[05:36:23] <davedes> it seems like my system is caching textures -- i.e. subsequent runs of my lwjgl (slick) application have significantly faster boot times. is there any way i can clear the cache to get a better feel for startup?
[05:41:23] <nbf> that's probably not the case unless slick has some caching features
[05:41:31] <nbf> you can use visualvm to profile your application
[05:41:38] <sproingie> it's your OS cache
[05:43:22] <sproingie> there's no easy way of defeating it other than running a bunch of other crap that evicts your data from the cache
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[05:45:07] <ra4king> OH MY GOD
[05:45:25] <ra4king> Playing BF3 causes my GPU to create so much heat...my room went from 69 F to 77 F!
[05:47:09] <sproingie> i dont envy your parents electricity bill
[05:47:58] <ra4king> sproingie: hahaha....ha........ oh crap......
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[06:19:06] <nbf> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Roosevelt,_Jr.#D-Day
[06:19:09] <nbf> man that guy is awesome
[06:19:39] <nbf> a general being the first guy landing on normandy during D-Day with a cane?
[06:23:36] <sproingie> long line of badasses apparently
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[06:52:49] <ra4king> nbf: :O
[06:52:55] <ra4king> sproingie: yeah, it's in the genes man!
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[07:55:04] <Cairo> anydone got some time to help me?
[07:55:05] <Cairo> error: http://pastebin.com/qCWL6mys
[07:55:56] <Cairo> render method: http://pastebin.com/usgbEFPi
[07:56:20] <Cairo> FX.java: http://pastebin.com/KGFBDfpp
[07:56:37] <Cairo> i know what causes that type of error, i jsut dont know how its happening here :/
[07:57:55] <davedes> could be because you are removing an element from the list as you are iterating through it
[07:58:49] <davedes> better to check for life/isActive in the for loop itself; then accommodate for the removal of the fx by changing the index for the next iteration
[08:00:23] <davedes> if you plan to have a lot of fx that are constantly being added/dying (like particles) then you can optimize by using two lists, similar to what princec described here: http://www.java-gaming.org/topics/arraylist-hashtable-or-for-holding-in-game-objects/25388/msg/219160/view.html#msg219160
[08:02:23] <ra4king> Cairo: look at line 28
[08:02:26] <ra4king> of FX.java
[08:02:37] <ra4king> that should solve your problem :)
[08:03:18] <Cairo> ra4king: in conjunction with what davedes said?
[08:03:20] <ra4king> instead of fxList.remove(this), use fxList.set(fxList.indexOf(this),null);
[08:04:02] <ra4king> Cairo: look at davedes's link, but since you check for null in the foreach loop, it's best to just set it null instead of removing
[08:04:09] <ra4king> since removing will throw a CME
[08:04:15] <Cairo> ah
[08:04:16] <Cairo> thanks
[08:05:10] <Cairo> ra4king: ah
[08:05:11] <Cairo> thanks
[08:05:12] <Cairo> that works
[08:05:14] <davedes> don't use null like ra4king said
[08:05:14] <Cairo> though...
[08:05:24] <ra4king> davedes: ?
[08:05:30] <Cairo> now no more FX's spawn because nulls count as indexes
[08:05:35] <davedes> Cairo -- if you use null then the size of the list won't be correct, and so your "max fx" check won't be right
[08:06:10] <davedes> for example {fx1, null, fx2, f3} should be 3 effects, but because of the null element it thinks its 4..
[08:06:20] <ra4king> then it's best to have a static variable that counts for FX
[08:06:25] <ra4king> add 1 when adding to the list
[08:06:31] <ra4king> subtract 1 when removing/setting to null
[08:06:41] <davedes> that's quite some overhead
[08:06:53] <Cairo> yeah
[08:06:57] <ra4king> davedes: ........ ?
[08:07:02] <ra4king> x++ is overhead?
[08:07:06] <Cairo> orr
[08:07:09] <Cairo> just remove the check
[08:07:19] <Cairo> i doubt that i'll get too many fx's
[08:07:24] <Cairo> though it would be good to have
[08:07:32] <ra4king> Cairo: just make your own counter
[08:07:37] <ra4king> easiest and best solution
[08:07:38] <davedes> you guys are missing the obvious and more elegant design solution: don't iterate with a for-each loop, but instead iterate using indices and remove(i--)
[08:08:28] <ra4king> Cairo: if you do that ^^ then you'll have to move the "if(life < 0)" check to inside the for loop
[08:08:59] <davedes> yes; better yet, use isActive is isAlive
[08:09:13] <davedes> then your code is really pretty ;)
[08:09:35] <Cairo> ;)
[08:09:37] <Cairo> thanks guys
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[08:12:46] <ra4king> davedes: the more variables, the less pretty :D
[08:13:10] <Cairo> http://machinestudios.co.uk/viewentry.php?id=45
[08:13:14] <davedes> ra4king - exactly? imagine if you had an x++ for every list you made... what a pain that would be.
[08:13:17] <Cairo> what does he mean by the title?
[08:13:43] <davedes> and then others would have to remember to x--/x++ when the list is altered.. plus you can't use list.size()
[08:13:46] <Cairo> that they dont earn enough?
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[11:04:57] <lwjglbot> lwjglforum: Re: [BUG] Visible mouse cursor in Minecraft <http://lwjgl.org/forum/index.php/topic,4420.msg23829.html#msg23829>
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[12:17:48] <vizzord> hello guys !
[12:19:04] <vizzord> what will i need to know for drawing 3d (i need z-buffer instead usual sorting depth in 2d) tiled game
[12:19:18] <vizzord> i never did anything with opengl before
[12:20:25] <vizzord> what the book or documentation u can suggest me  ? with maximum compatibility with lwjgl of course ))
[12:21:14] <vizzord> thanx, i hope somebody can help me )
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[12:35:11] <lwjglbot> lwjglforum: Re: [BUG] Visible mouse cursor in Minecraft <http://lwjgl.org/forum/index.php/topic,4420.msg23830.html#msg23830>
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[12:49:02] <Wolfzz> vizzord,
[12:49:16] <Wolfzz> you should probably read up opengl tutorials first
[12:49:18] <vizzord> hi Wolfzz
[12:49:30] <Wolfzz> it's basically the same as lwjgl
[12:51:15] <vizzord> the drawing part of lwjql is the same as it described in C++ tutorials ?
[12:51:32] <Wolfzz> pretty much
[12:51:40] <vizzord> Wolfzz, thank you
[12:52:19] <Wolfzz> vizzord, everything is same but glut aka the window stuff
[12:52:37] <Wolfzz> just look through lwjgl demos how display is created etc
[12:52:58] <vizzord> Wolfzz, pure opengl withou glu glut, sdl
[12:53:08] <Wolfzz> glu exists
[12:53:13] <Wolfzz> in lwjgl
[12:53:13] <vizzord> wow, cool
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[14:56:16] <kappaOne> oh interesting, the IcedTea project now has a port of OpenJDK for ARM complete with hotspots and its passed the TCK
[14:57:24] <MatthiasM> nice
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[15:35:35] <lwjglbot> lwjglforum: Re: rendered faces overlapping other faces, Is GL_DEPTH_TEST enabled? <http://lwjgl.org/forum/index.php/topic,4419.msg23831.html#msg23831>
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[15:58:16] <atrus6> Ugh, I'm having a lot of trouble passing textures to shaders apparently. Are there any good pages that describe that?
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[16:46:48] <jack_1010> hi
[16:46:53] <jack_1010> anybody here
[16:47:04] <kappaOne> yes
[16:48:00] <jack_1010> is this a support channel?
[16:48:27] <kappaOne> in a way yeh
[16:48:35] <jack_1010> alright
[16:48:53] <jack_1010> ill be back ^_^
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[17:02:44] <atrus6> Okay, so first I call glActiveTexture(GL_TEXTURE0), then glBindTexture(GL_TEXTURE_2D, textureID) and then glUniform1iARB(shaderID, GL_TEXTURE0) ?
[17:04:02] <sproingie> that last one doesnt look right
[17:06:14] <atrus6> ARBShaderObjects.glUniform1iARB(fragmentShader, GL13.GL_TEXTURE0); is what I have exactly, I stole it from a multi-texturing tutorial on lwjgl.org
[17:07:58] <sproingie> oh i read shaderID as textureID for some reason
[17:08:00] <sproingie> just woke up
[17:10:04] <atrus6> oh darn, it is right then. I was hoping that was the only problem :(
[17:10:05] <nbf> I wonder how they got a tck
[17:10:24] <nbf> i assume the openjdk for arm port isn't oracle's internal one?
[17:11:03] <sproingie> lwjgl tutorials love to use nothing but ancient ARB extension APIs
[17:11:25] <sproingie> for shaders, you really should skip them.  anything only supporting shaders as an extension probably isn't worth doing shaders on anyway
[17:11:37] <kappaOne> nbf: its the IcedTea one
[17:11:56] <kappaOne> and i think Redhat has a TCK
[17:12:13] <Jonas__> I'm trying to figure out a neat way to distribute my games in such a way that the user doesn't have to go out and install a java VM on his own and all that, at least as far as windows is concerned
[17:12:23] <atrus6> Figures. Where would I find a more up-to-date tutorial then?
[17:12:28] <kappaOne> Jonas__: just bundle the jre then
[17:12:29] <nbf> hmm I wonder if it's a TCK that redhat come up with for openjdk or if it's from oracle
[17:12:38] <kappaOne> its likely the Oracle one
[17:12:49] <kappaOne> don't think there is any other
[17:13:03] <Jonas__> I've noticed that princec provides his game Revenge of the Titans in a nice, simple exe, that when run doesn't launch a separate java process or anything, does anybody know how he does that?
[17:13:05] <sproingie> install4j i think can install a jre
[17:13:29] <nbf> its such a shame that harmony got shelved
[17:13:35] <sproingie> ROTT i believe is compiled with excelsior JET
[17:13:52] <nbf> sucks openjdk is GPL
[17:13:59] <nbf> can't use it on iOS or most commercial platforms
[17:14:02] <Jonas__> oh, that explains it, I'll have a google in that direction
[17:14:04] <Jonas__> thanks sproingie
[17:14:22] <sproingie> nbf: GPL has nothing to do with it, apple wants java dead for other reasons
[17:15:03] <kappaOne> sproingie: you mean launch4j ? :)
[17:15:55] <sproingie> er possibly.  install4j is another one
[17:17:17] <sproingie> install4j is a full blown installer suite, launch4j is a wrapper.  latter's all you need to auto-download a JRE
[17:18:04] <Jonas__> oh my, say what you will about excelsior jet, but a commercial license wasn't cheap
[17:18:18] <sproingie> it's quite pricey indeed
[17:18:40] <sproingie> princec would tell you it's well worth it for any commercial shop using java
[17:19:11] <Jonas__> I don't doubt that, a game bundled up that way looks very professional
[17:20:46] <nbf> there's also llvm vmkit :)
[17:20:58] <nbf> which is BSD licensed open source
[17:21:01] <sproingie> that's known to be slower than hotspot
[17:21:16] <sproingie> it's made so java can run on platforms that hotspot doesn't run on
[17:21:39] <sproingie> pretty sure it still has a runtime component
[17:22:07] <vizzord> sorry for interrapting you . java really does not working on ipones ?
[17:22:19] <sproingie> vizzord: apple does everything they can to keep it off
[17:22:38] <vizzord> omg .. and flash too
[17:22:40] <sproingie> it would work but for apple's arbitrary restrictions, like forbidding JIT
[17:23:15] <nbf> yeah no java for iphone
[17:23:28] <nbf> you can't even use a jvm like openjdk because of the GPL
[17:23:29] <vizzord> the first phone without java lool )
[17:23:32] <sproingie> frankly i dont care about flash.  flash on android has always sucked hard
[17:24:03] <nbf> yeah but that's probably a good thing ;)
[17:24:14] <kappaOne> well apple want to prevent as many of the tech's that allow easy cross platform applications
[17:24:18] <vizzord> sproingie:  thank you for information . didn't knew it
[17:24:25] <nbf> they just don't want to deal with GPL
[17:24:25] <kappaOne> that way they can get the vendor lock in
[17:24:40] <nbf> vlc got booted out of the app store as soon as the GPL requests for source code started coming in
[17:25:33] <atrus6> vlc is already open source, what would that have to do with anything?
[17:25:51] <nbf> ugh
[17:25:52] <sproingie> vlc got booted out because it was competition
[17:25:55] <nbf> learn to read
[17:27:09] <atrus6> nbf: Are you implying that an GPL application on a close sourced system means you need the source of the system?
[17:27:38] <nbf> what does that even mean
[17:27:59] <Wolfzz> sfdsf
[17:28:14] <nbf> what I'm implying is, by distributing vlc binaries apple became responsible for providing vlc's source code to anyone who requests it
[17:28:21] <nbf> and thus they booted vlc out of the appstore
[17:29:25] <sproingie> the problem with VLC was that one of the VLC core devs basically got imperious with apple and sent them threatening legalish notices
[17:29:49] <sproingie> apple decided enough with this shit and just nuked the whole thing and said "ok, happy?"
[17:30:27] *** ra4king|zzzzzz is now known as ra4king
[17:30:29] <sproingie> the main problem with the GPL is that it breeds amateur copyright lawyers who torpedo their own interests
[17:30:30] <ra4king> sproingie: NUKED WAT?!
[17:30:38] <ra4king> oh oops caps lock :D
[17:31:00] <sproingie> http://mailman.videolan.org/pipermail/vlc-devel/2010-October/077325.html
[17:31:37] <sproingie> apple does do a lot of abusive stuff, but this was basically sabotage by one of VLC's own devs
[17:32:43] <jezek2> it wasn't sabotage, (L)GPL licensed code on apple store is not legal
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[17:34:57] <monty_hall> afternoon
[17:35:06] <jezek2> as it's distributed by apple, with modified binary and the enduser doesn't have ability to execute rights by GPL license
[17:35:08] <ra4king> monty_hall: alkasdjfoiasdpfoiajsdofipaosdjifpaoisdjfpoasidfj hi :)
[17:35:19] <monty_hall> oO
[17:35:50] <ra4king> I'm just absolutely awesome
[17:35:53] <ra4king> I love everyone
[17:36:03] <sproingie> it's definitely incompatible with gplv3.  as for v2, there's a lot of vague interpretation.
[17:36:15] <sproingie> which kinda sums up gpl in general
[17:37:52] <jezek2> hehe, anyway... people should not choose (L)GPL for their apps/libs if their priority is maximum usability for any (unforeseen) usage
[17:39:03] <jezek2> if they like principles of free software or like the equality protection of opensource edition (like in case of dual licensed commercial software), it's a good deal :)
[17:39:15] <Wolfzz> can normal variables be different for each thread
[17:39:20] <jezek2> also if it's an app, GPL hurts less, than if it's library
[17:39:47] <nbf> http://tim.thechases.com/mononono/
[17:39:48] <nbf> lol
[17:40:52] <jezek2> nbf: what is it? :)
[17:41:08] <jezek2> ah
[17:41:15] <jezek2> first line explains it :D
[17:41:45] <jezek2> that's funny, I bet some used similar approaches to get rid of pulseaudio :P
[17:43:17] <nbf> I'm trying out the next ubuntu
[17:43:23] <nbf> and they dropped mono from it
[17:43:32] <JNiNJA> WTF ?
[17:43:42] <nbf> I can't wait though 11.10 was a travesty
[17:43:51] <jezek2> I'm glad debian stable still got gnome2 :)
[17:43:52] <JNiNJA> ImmediateMode give me more FPS
[17:43:56] <nbf> hopefully this release sucks less
[17:44:05] <nbf> JNiNJA: that means you're doing it wrong or you're not doing much
[17:44:21] <jezek2> nbf: I think bests of ubuntus are over imho ;)
[17:44:22] <JNiNJA> i don't know
[17:44:29] <nbf> jezek2: :( I hope not
[17:44:30] <jezek2> people migrating away
[17:44:33] <JNiNJA> i read this tut for VBOs
[17:44:41] <JNiNJA> http://www.java-gaming.org/topics/introduction-to-vertex-arrays-and-vertex-buffer-objects-opengl/24272/view.html
[17:44:46] <nbf> its funny in #ubuntu there are daily rages about how much unity sucks
[17:44:55] <JNiNJA> and i render each in Loop of 100
[17:44:55] <jezek2> well it's combination of ubuntu+gnome3+kde4 stupidness in redefining GUI based on tablets or what... but on desktops ;)
[17:45:15] <JNiNJA> VBO = 220-250 FPS
[17:45:19] <nbf> on my work laptop, unity uses up almost 100% of my vram just sitting there
[17:45:25] <JNiNJA> ImmediateMode = 350 FPS
[17:45:25] <nbf> which is AWESOME
[17:45:45] <nbf> I can't wait until they upgrade me
[17:45:45] <jezek2> nbf: that's why my next desktop os will be Haiku OS instead of linux
[17:45:54] <nbf> but the next macbook pros are ATI :( :(
[17:45:58] <jezek2> have enough after 14 years ;)
[17:46:09] <nbf> haiku doesn't have real opengl support
[17:46:20] <jezek2> it's being working on
[17:46:49] <jezek2> though we would need to wait for any high performance as it's based on opensource drivers (gallium3d)
[17:47:27] <JNiNJA> any help ?
[17:47:43] <nbf> I can't imagine why they didn't use linux for the OS
[17:47:44] <jezek2> I will migrate slowly on it... like within few years, using other OS for other stuff (like 3d graphics ;)
[17:47:59] <nbf> and then build a BeOS userland from scratch
[17:48:09] <jezek2> I'm hoping vmware + gallium3d would get useable performance in virtualized environment at least
[17:48:16] <jezek2> few projects tried that
[17:48:18] <jezek2> it sucked
[17:48:44] <jezek2> also many of the beos features are because of different kernel & approach
[17:48:50] <nbf> like what?
[17:48:58] <nbf> I know BeOS is famous for being super responsive
[17:49:06] <nbf> but you could tweak the linux kernel
[17:49:14] <nbf> and it has such awesome hardware support
[17:49:19] <jezek2> like ABI for drivers so closedsource drivers can be supported
[17:49:21] <nbf> which the Haiku kernel will never, ever, ever have
[17:49:27] <jezek2> + the whole system is extensively based on messaging
[17:49:49] <jezek2> never say never :)
[17:50:17] <jezek2> it could reuse drivers from it (though they prefer to reuse drivers from freebsd for license reasons ;)
[17:50:19] <nbf> well I'd put the chances of haiku being successul and having popular IHV support at less than 5%
[17:50:28] <jezek2> or they can use linux drivers just as documentation
[17:50:32] <nbf> since they've been working on it for a decade and haven't attracted support
[17:50:55] <jezek2> where was linux after decade? it wasn't so hot either
[17:51:07] <nbf> well there's the whole internet
[17:51:13] <nbf> or at least the web
[17:51:15] <jezek2> on desktop
[17:51:23] <jezek2> haiku is not server os nor never will be
[17:52:09] <jezek2> linux has lot of support, but it struggles a lot on desktop
[17:52:12] <nbf> true linux is still a bit player on the desktop scene
[17:52:19] <nbf> although it doubled last year
[17:52:21] <JNiNJA> well i improve it LOL
[17:52:28] <JNiNJA> now its 5 fps more lol
[17:52:30] <jezek2> if some things were done differently I think it would expand more
[17:52:35] <nbf> and now some major vendors are pushing it (chromebooks, android, etc0
[17:52:35] <sproingie> kde4 just had a rough start but it got better.  gnome aspires to get worse every version
[17:52:42] <jezek2> it looks like the success of linux on desktop is somewhat capped
[17:52:51] <nbf> granted doubling 1% is still only 2%
[17:53:05] <jezek2> by being GPL zealots, hostile (both technically and socially) against commercial SW
[17:53:14] <sproingie> the problem with gnome is the core devs more interested in making their mark on the history of UIs or something
[17:53:25] <nbf> yeah that's rough although it seems like it's resolving
[17:53:26] <sproingie> rather than the boring work of writing actually good software
[17:53:42] <nbf> there's much less GNU fundamentalism in say, the ubuntu community
[17:53:52] <sproingie> linux does pretty good on devices.  core of android is linux after all
[17:53:52] <nbf> and I think that's because ubuntu is run by a commercial company
[17:53:53] <jezek2> yes, but there is other idiocies there ;)
[17:53:56] <nbf> so they try to find a balance
[17:53:59] <jezek2> one time I really believed in ubuntu
[17:54:12] <jezek2> it achieved something really good... but that's over :)
[17:54:56] <jezek2> also haiku has surprisingly good donation base
[17:54:57] <sproingie> to get all MBA-speak, i'm not sure canonical can really execute on its vision
[17:55:00] <sproingie> redhat can
[17:55:02] <nbf> well see, the only release I didn't really, really like in the past few years was 11.10
[17:55:06] <jezek2> so part of work is done as contracts
[17:55:12] <nbf> and that was only a few months ago and was part of a paradigm shift in the desktop ui
[17:55:17] <jezek2> that's awesome for such small community
[17:55:30] <nbf> I actually like the capabilities of the new desktops but they just aren't polished enough yet
[17:56:16] <jezek2> I don't know why should I like them... they add widgets that are copied from iPad... but that's completely different kind of device
[17:56:28] <sproingie> shifting the paradigm is great if you actually have a reason for it other than doing it for its own sake
[17:56:35] <jezek2> yeah
[17:56:46] <jezek2> I don't see any reason for the changes
[17:56:51] <sproingie> deciding that tablets and mouse+keyboard desktops are the same thing is just idiocy
[17:57:01] <jezek2> *real reason :)
[17:57:11] <jezek2> why getting rid of scrollbars for example?
[17:57:16] <nbf> that was a change I liked
[17:57:20] <sproingie> i love how gnome3 makes you use the corners of the screen.  i run multi-monitors and synergy.  my center desktop *has no corners*
[17:57:20] <nbf> great idea
[17:57:36] <jezek2> most scrollbars are on right side and screens are wide screen mostly, so no issue there
[17:57:50] <nbf> yeah but why waste spaces
[17:57:52] <sproingie> the flip-out scrollbars come all the way from smalltalk
[17:57:52] <jezek2> I get the idea of using panel on left/right for wide screens
[17:57:59] <nbf> I see it as win/win
[17:58:00] <jezek2> I'm not against unity btw
[17:58:05] <jezek2> that's just natural extension
[17:58:20] <jezek2> though I would like to be compatible for 4:3/5:4 screens too ;)
[17:58:34] <sproingie> the scrollbar thing i dont care about.  it's the general "we configured it this way and we know better than you, being able to customize will just confuse you"
[17:58:43] <nbf> I think my monitor is 10:9
[17:59:04] <nbf> err 16:10 ;)
[17:59:11] <nbf> 10:9 haha
[17:59:33] <sproingie> mighty square monitor
[17:59:46] <jezek2> sproingie: well it's totally unusable
[17:59:56] <jezek2> OSX10.7 did similar change, but it's usable
[18:00:40] <jezek2> + the configuration options of ubuntu 11.10 are ... well wtf
[18:00:44] <sproingie> meantime kde fixed most of their problems
[18:00:51] <nbf> what configuration options?
[18:00:51] <nbf> haha
[18:00:57] <jezek2> yes but KDE4 sucks completely in concept
[18:01:00] <sproingie> and even kubuntu managed to roll out a decent kde distribution this time
[18:01:05] <jezek2> I even realized KDE3 sucked too
[18:01:13] <jezek2> by looking how it was extended in KDE4
[18:01:39] <jezek2> the plasma thing is just wtf
[18:01:53] <sproingie> what's nice about kde4 is you're not really forced into plasma
[18:01:54] <jezek2> what is good about arbitrary rotating the widgets
[18:01:59] <jezek2> + it's ugly
[18:02:07] <nbf> KDE4 needs MOAR BLUE GLOW
[18:02:08] <jezek2> oh... and the graphics theme is really really ugly in KDE4
[18:02:22] <jezek2> they should hire actual graphics artists
[18:02:31] <jezek2> and not these so called artists
[18:02:43] <sproingie> kde's default scheme is not pretty.  you have to tweak kde for a few hours, but it actually lets you do that
[18:02:47] <jezek2> that have some details quite nice (well mostly copied from win vista/7 anyway...)
[18:02:51] <jezek2> and the rest is plain ugly
[18:03:00] <jezek2> I tried tweaking, tried qtcurve
[18:03:10] <jezek2> it was all bad
[18:03:14] <jezek2> couldn't make it nice
[18:03:19] <jezek2> at least a little
[18:03:33] <nbf> same here, I tried it after 11.10 came out
[18:03:34] <jezek2> default theme should be ok
[18:03:36] <jezek2> like ubuntu has...
[18:03:40] <tametick> what does KK mean in terms of apartments to rent jezek2?
[18:03:44] <tametick> (sorry off topic)
[18:03:48] <nbf> it's just terrible aesthetically
[18:03:50] <sproingie> eh.  matter of taste i guess.  i'll take a little bit of ugly in my OS if it's not functionally retarded
[18:04:09] <nbf> there's something wrong about kde's fonts too
[18:04:13] <nbf> I have no idea what it is
[18:04:26] <sproingie> considering it's the exact same font system
[18:04:31] <jezek2> tametick: I believe it's "koupelna/kuchyn" (=bathroom/kitchen), but not entirelly sure :)
[18:04:36] <nbf> it's not the fonts themselves, I tried changing to like droid and ubuntu fonts
[18:04:51] <tametick> jezek2: pricing of apartments in prague confuses me
[18:04:59] <nbf> KDE users have to have no visual taste
[18:05:04] <nbf> to stay with it
[18:05:07] <sproingie> install the infinality font patches, you'll love the way it looks
[18:05:10] <sproingie> prettier than a mac
[18:05:14] <tametick> it says X in rent, and then something very close to X or even more in additioal costs like electricity etc
[18:05:24] <ra4king> anyone here have experience with either paint.net or gimp?
[18:05:41] <nbf> I'm pretty familiar with gimp
[18:05:46] <ra4king> how do you find a certain pixel?
[18:05:56] <jezek2> sproingie: no, it's not taste issue... you can dislike some theme but still it can be polished and good
[18:05:57] <lwjglbot> lwjglforum: Re: rendered faces overlapping other faces, Is GL_DEPTH_TEST enabled? <http://lwjgl.org/forum/index.php/topic,4419.msg23832.html#msg23832>
[18:06:05] <ra4king> I want to know if an image file has a certain pixel color
[18:06:19] <sproingie> i'm really not having an internet argument on the platonic existence of aesthetics
[18:06:23] <jezek2> and default theme should be good for like 80%+ of users
[18:06:42] <jezek2> or at least not annoy the rest
[18:06:43] <jezek2> :)
[18:06:58] <nbf> there is no decent alternative theme either
[18:07:04] <sproingie> kde has to be de-cluttered, de-uglified, and mostly de-plasmified for me to like it.  i just appreciate that that's actually possible.
[18:07:29] <nbf> horrible font rendering + horrible themes + MOAR BLUE GLOW = kde
[18:07:46] <jezek2> tametick: can you show me some example urls?
[18:07:48] <sproingie> oh yeah oxygen has that stupid blue glow shadow.  first thing i get rid of.
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[18:08:00] <sproingie> as for the font rendering, that's totally your distro
[18:08:01] <tametick> i'll try to find the ones i was looking for
[18:08:04] <jezek2> tametick: not that I'm skilled in rents :)
[18:08:32] <jezek2> tametick: can ask friend though
[18:09:04] <tametick> i am looking at apartments in prague atm
[18:09:08] <jezek2> or Unimatrix325 can be also helpful as he's from czech too :)
[18:09:09] <tametick> via http://sreality.cz
[18:09:35] <Unimatrix325> indeed
[18:10:06] <Unimatrix325> what was the question ?
[18:10:09] <ra4king> nbf: so is there such a tool in gimp?
[18:11:41] <tametick> jezek2: hrm, seems that looking at the more expensive ones removes these abnormalities. i started my search with sorting by price of course, and for the cheapest apartments i was getting really strange texts
[18:11:47] <jezek2> Unimatrix325: about renting apartments, what KK means (I think koupelna/kuchyn)
[18:11:53] <jezek2> <tametick> jezek2: pricing of apartments in prague confuses me
[18:11:59] <jezek2> <tametick> it says X in rent, and then something very close to X or even more in additioal costs like electricity etc
[18:12:02] <jezek2> Unimatrix325: and this ^ :)
[18:12:05] <Unimatrix325> ah
[18:12:14] <tametick> like 4000 CZK for rent and 3500 in utilities
[18:12:18] <Unimatrix325> no... KK means that the kitchen is a part of one room
[18:12:42] <Unimatrix325> so if that is 2+kk that means only two rooms while the kitchen is in one of them
[18:12:50] <tametick> but now i am looking at the 7000-9000 Czk range and it seems saner
[18:13:03] <jezek2> ah :)
[18:13:06] <tametick> cool. figured it would be something like that Unimatrix325
[18:13:07] <Unimatrix325> while 2+1 means 2 rooms + 1 kitchen room
[18:13:43] <tametick> are you in prague Unimatrix325?
[18:13:57] <Unimatrix325> no, in Pilsen
[18:14:05] <tametick> hrm
[18:14:07] <tametick> ok
[18:14:43] <Unimatrix325> and the cost consists usually from 2 things - the rent itself and the "prepayment" for water, heat and electricity
[18:14:56] <Jonas__> after giving the excelsior jet eval version a quick spin I must say that I'm very impressed
[18:15:12] <tametick> Unimatrix325: yes, what confused me was that here for example the rent would be 90% of the cost.
[18:15:14] <Jonas__> it does all sorts of cool stuff that I really want, like stack allocation and such
[18:15:14] <jezek2> Jonas__: yes it's nice, I'm not impressed with their prices though :P
[18:15:20] <Unimatrix325> and once a year those "energies" are calculated and either you get some money back (unlikely) or you have to pay some more
[18:15:27] <Jonas__> yeah, I could do with a lower price ;)
[18:15:43] <jezek2> thoiugh they added some special program for small companies
[18:15:44] <kappaOne> yeh the excelsior jet ppl also offered to do a OS X/iOS version
[18:15:59] <kappaOne> however wanted $500,000.00 for the port
[18:16:35] <nbf> yeah I got quoted from them a while back for the compiler tools
[18:16:38] <nbf> and it was like 10k
[18:17:00] <Unimatrix325> also it not unusual to request 2-3x the rent in advance as a "bail"
[18:17:21] <jezek2> I think it's too pricey... considering how similar tools are priced... like delphi but that comes with complete IDE and stuff...
[18:17:29] <tametick> Unimatrix325: yeah that's the same thing here
[18:17:35] <Unimatrix325> ok
[18:17:49] <tametick> Unimatrix325: so far it seems likely that i'd need to pay 7000-9000 Czk/month
[18:17:51] <nbf> yeah I wonder how much money they'd make if those tools were affordable by small software groups
[18:17:52] <jezek2> + JRE is good enough for most people
[18:17:53] <Jonas__> I guess it helps to be the only game in town, or one of a very limited few alternatives
[18:18:19] <kappaOne> GCJ works too
[18:18:28] <derBiggi> Are you talking about the embedded thing?
[18:18:34] <kappaOne> but not sure how far along they've got with their garbage collector
[18:18:42] <kappaOne> which was pretty crap about 4 years ago
[18:18:46] <kappaOne> when i last tried
[18:18:53] <Jonas__> the heap performance really impressed me for excelsior
[18:19:00] <Jonas__> though maybe it was all stack allocation wins
[18:19:17] <Jonas__> either way it was a *lot* better than the performance I got with a vanilla vm
[18:19:35] <Unimatrix325> tametick : yes, probably something like that... the prices vary dependant on the apartment situation (if it's near public transport etc.) and of course dependant on the apartment state
[18:19:35] <Unimatrix325> and the size in the first place of course
[18:19:47] <nbf> jezek2: what is your argument about unity's scrollbars exactly?
[18:19:49] <jezek2> kappaOne: yeah tried jbullet in gcj once... slow as hell, because of GC (had to disable my stack allocation optimization to be able to compile it)
[18:20:05] <nbf> I'm curious because I'm using a similar technique in my twl eclipse stuff
[18:20:21] <kappaOne> jezek2: heard though that the collector has gotten better of late
[18:20:21] <nbf> and if there's some flaw for certain groups of people I'd like to try and resolve that
[18:20:27] <kappaOne> some of the XMLVM ppl reported that
[18:20:37] <jezek2> nbf: unity's not... general scrollbars in GTK... well you have to move into it, wait I think, then there is small popup you can grab and move, and it was buggy, had tendency to just hide and stuff
[18:20:53] <nbf> ok so it's not the concept just the implementation
[18:21:10] <nbf> there's also llvm vmkit
[18:21:24] <nbf> and llvm is *the* open source infrastructure compiler project these days
[18:21:26] <nbf> it's the new GNU
[18:21:27] <kappaOne> anyone actually tried vmkit?
[18:21:34] <nbf> I have with little hello world stuff
[18:21:35] <jezek2> yeah... OSX uses similar concept but it works quite well
[18:21:44] <kappaOne> nbf: any good?
[18:21:52] <kappaOne> can it be used for iphone deployment?
[18:21:55] <nbf> it works and the source code is easy to understand
[18:22:09] <jezek2> yeah but vmkit seems quite limited in certain things, I don't remember what exactly
[18:22:11] <nbf> it could be but there would be work involved with the compiler getting the arch supported
[18:22:15] <jezek2> but something about either exceptions and/or GC
[18:22:27] <nbf> I'm still learning llvm but I really like it to far
[18:22:39] <jezek2> I'm far happier with my own native codegen in my lang, than messing with LLVM tbh
[18:22:41] <nbf> I chat with these guys occasionally: http://code.google.com/p/crack-language/
[18:22:52] <nbf> they're working on a cool language that uses llvm
[18:22:53] <nbf> crack
[18:23:28] <jezek2> I think LLVM is too universal (like having arbitrary bits for integers and stuff) yet not too much really (can't really do much beyond classic compiler/JIT)
[18:23:38] <kappaOne> oh some new demos on gakai.com time to try some 'Orcs must die' :)
[18:23:38] <jezek2> *bit size
[18:23:40] <derBiggi> If you're only talking about Excelsior JET, and if it is actually that good, i don't think it's too pricey
[18:23:54] <jezek2> derBiggi: for any small developer it's way out of range
[18:23:59] <derBiggi> At least not if you're really doing some commercial app
[18:24:08] <derBiggi> Well.. That depends on what you're developing
[18:24:33] <jezek2> commercial isn't always about having million of customers :)
[18:24:36] <derBiggi> For a hobby project, sure
[18:25:16] <kappaOne> isn't JET free for hobby projects though?
[18:25:18] <jezek2> and when compared to similar tools (like eg. delphi) it's way overpriced and without any IDE or so)
[18:25:20] <derBiggi> Well... As soon as i want to live from my software, we're talking about 80-100k a year... So 1000 to 3000$ for a software shouldn't be really a problem
[18:25:20] <kappaOne> *open source projects
[18:25:52] <jezek2> yes, but it's better to use normal JRE for opensource stuff imho
[18:26:06] <derBiggi> Well, it's technology. It costs money. Ask graphic artists whay they pay for Photoshop and similar tools... Or 3D artists what they pay for 3D Max or Maya
[18:26:10] <nbf> derBiggi: yeah but if you need JET you did it wrong anyway
[18:26:13] <jezek2> derBiggi: 10k$?
[18:26:58] <derBiggi> Yeah, as i said... if it's actually that good it's worth it. I haven't tried it myself (yet)
[18:27:05] <MatthiasM> kappaOne: OMD is a nice game
[18:27:16] <jezek2> nbf: oh that was for the OSX port?
[18:27:21] <kappaOne> MatthiasM: yeh looks like it :)
[18:27:34] <nbf> OSX port?
[18:27:39] <derBiggi> Just wanted to say that i generally don't have a problem with a price like 1 to 3k for a good software
[18:27:45] <nbf> no with JET that was just to license JET to compile stuff
[18:27:52] <jezek2> nbf: what was the 10k$ quote you mentioned from JET
[18:27:56] <derBiggi> Although I prefer my tools to be open source :)
[18:28:01] <nbf> it was for like a toolchain and associated libraries/materials
[18:28:03] <jezek2> hmm seems they have slightly lower prices now
[18:28:14] <nbf> that quote is from ~3 years ago
[18:28:32] <derBiggi> Yeah, Windows+Linux, Professional version: 3k
[18:28:37] <derBiggi> That doesn't sound too bad
[18:29:01] <ra4king> nbf: well i created a tool for the job
[18:29:03] <ra4king> screw gimp :)
[18:29:10] <nbf> you're the man now dog
[18:29:20] <nbf> sorry I mised your earlier question
[18:29:24] <ra4king> yeah it was only 6 lines of java code :)
[18:30:20] <jezek2> derBiggi: if it was full development environment then true, but it's just compiler
[18:30:26] <nbf> yeah it's still expensive
[18:30:28] <jezek2> derBiggi: + you can use embedded JRE
[18:30:32] <nbf> 8k for enterprise + windows and linux support
[18:30:38] <jezek2> + have support for OSX ;)
[18:30:48] <nbf> as long as you only want to run on osx, linux and windows
[18:30:49] <ra4king> gotta go
[18:30:58] <ra4king> going out with the fam
[18:31:00] *** ra4king is now known as ra4king|afk
[18:31:38] <derBiggi> Anyway, thanks for the mentioning of this excelsior thingy. I'll take a look at that later maybe it will be usefull some time
[18:31:43] <derBiggi> Gonna go making dinner now
[18:32:02] <jezek2> well they're clearly oriented on enterprises where it makes sense (support is highest priority + enterprise features)
[18:33:09] <tametick> Unimatrix325: i found some nice apartments that i can afford, but i was hoping it would be cheaper...it's cheaper than vienna but not a lot cheaper
[18:33:27] <tametick> maybe i am spoiled by living in an a-typically cheap apartment here
[18:33:36] <jezek2> hehe
[18:33:36] <Unimatrix325> well yeah, Prague is expensive
[18:33:47] <tametick> i will pay maybe 100 euros less than here
[18:33:58] <Unimatrix325> it's compensated by the large sallaries
[18:34:12] <tametick> 8500 czk instead of 440 euros
[18:34:15] <Unimatrix325> well 100E is a nice money .)
[18:34:23] <tametick> Unimatrix325: i am self employed
[18:34:31] <tametick> so it doesn't matter where i live
[18:34:34] <Unimatrix325> yeah, that's your disadvantage :)
[18:34:36] <tametick> i just want to live in a big city
[18:35:02] <Unimatrix325> everything is more expensive as well there... any service, haircuts etc.
[18:35:03] <tametick> Unimatrix325: it is an advantage. it means i can move to prague and live much better with teh same money as in vienna
[18:35:11] <Unimatrix325> yeah, sure
[18:35:25] <tametick> 1000 euros/month in vienna is just getting by
[18:35:35] <Unimatrix325> but on the other hand someone who moves to prague and is employed will benefit from the average larger sallary
[18:35:36] <tametick> in prague that a comfy middle class existance
[18:36:06] <tametick> yeah. i'm not complaining about the price. it's still a good price for me :)
[18:36:06] <Unimatrix325> yeah, probably
[18:36:11] <tametick> compared to vienna or berlin
[18:36:26] <tametick> which on their own are not expensive in western european terms
[18:37:48] <tametick> also, taxes are lower in the czech republic. although i am not sure i'm coming on top with my kind of income
[18:38:07] <tametick> since income tax only starts past the first 11k euro per year here
[18:39:23] <Unimatrix325> hm, the tax system is pretty complicated
[18:39:44] <tametick> it's very simple for self employed
[18:39:47] <Unimatrix325> you have to pay taxes, health insurance, social insurance
[18:39:51] <tametick> i think it's just 20% of your income
[18:40:00] <tametick> yeah but that's the same everywhere
[18:40:30] <Unimatrix325> I'm not sure... the truth is, that the difference between what my employer has to pay and what I get is almost 50%
[18:40:52] <Unimatrix325> and it would be similar for self employed
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[18:41:20] <JNiNJA> OpenGL is Hard XD
[18:41:33] <kappaOne> not hard, just low level
[18:41:41] <tametick> Unimatrix325: i checked it and it's not the case for self employed
[18:42:07] <JNiNJA> i just need to learn all that buffer stuff
[18:42:08] <Unimatrix325> ok
[18:43:15] <tametick> Unimatrix325: it's something like 19% income tax plus a bit for social & medical insurance
[18:43:22] <tametick> but it adds up to a lot less than 50%
[18:44:35] <Unimatrix325> it's not 50%, but maybe something like 40% for the employees for sure
[18:44:52] <tametick> yeah that might be
[18:44:58] <Unimatrix325> maybe it¦9s different for selfemployed, but it's strange, if the difference is that much
[18:45:17] <tametick> you pay a bunch of money either way
[18:45:24] <Unimatrix325> yeah
[18:45:34] <tametick> but it's not an abnormally large amount compared to the average in the EU
[18:45:45] <tametick> and i am pretty sure it is below EU average
[18:47:15] <Unimatrix325> I don't know... I have not really analysed that, but the common argument is that "you have very low taxes - only 15%" but that is not true... because no matter what the taxes are oficially, I get only like 60% of what mu employer has to pay
[18:47:41] <tametick> yeah but that's all relative to other countries Unimatrix325
[18:47:57] <tametick> it could be a lot of money and still less than what you'd pay in austria or germany
[18:48:22] <tametick> i didn't say very low taxes, only lower than here :)
[18:48:23] <Unimatrix325> I checked it now and I get exactly 53%
[18:48:30] <Unimatrix325> so basically 47% tax
[18:48:41] <tametick> for what kind of salary/
[18:48:56] <Unimatrix325> above average but nothing fance
[18:48:57] <Unimatrix325> *fancy
[18:49:08] <Unimatrix325> it's not "millionair tax"
[18:49:38] <tametick> here social & medical insurance are 150 euros/month, so if you earn a low salary it will be a relatively large portion of your income but if you earn more it will be a smaller percentage
[18:49:49] <tametick> (150 e/m minimum/default rate)
[18:52:46] <tametick> in my last job as far as i know my cost to the employed was around 3500 e/month, 14 time per year but after all taxes and social/medical insurance i was getting a clean net of only about 1900
[18:52:55] <tametick> *to the employer
[18:53:05] <tametick> so that's 54.2%, about the same as you i guess
[18:53:09] <Unimatrix325> I see
[18:53:24] <tametick> anyway
[18:53:39] <tametick> tax isn't the reason i'm moving so it doesn't matter much :p
[18:53:51] <Unimatrix325> and what is the reason ?
[18:53:59] <tametick> i'm tired of vienna\
[18:54:05] <Unimatrix325> how so ? :-)
[18:54:06] <tametick> been here for 7 years already
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[18:54:29] <Unimatrix325> and where are you from originally btw ?
[18:54:50] <tametick> and want to go someplace else, and prague is an easy choice (and regardless of taxes is still low cost than my other options)
[18:54:55] <tametick> Israel
[18:55:01] <Unimatrix325> ah, yes I remember
[18:55:23] <tametick> i was thinking of berlin too
[18:55:29] <tametick> which is also relatively affordable
[18:55:35] <tametick> but it's a but rough
[18:55:56] <tametick> i've been there 4 times, i like visiting but i don't know if i would want to live there
[18:56:29] <tametick> it takes so long to get from one place to another. and most of the city is so gray and depressing
[18:58:38] <tametick> also, there is a bit of an indie games scene in prague. not much but more than in vienna
[19:04:36] <Unimatrix325> is it ?
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[19:09:07] <tametick> yes
[19:09:11] <tametick> a small one
[19:09:51] <tametick> Unimatrix325: https://twitter.com/#!/indiegamescz
[19:09:55] <tametick> they sometimes report meetups
[19:10:06] <tametick> i think there is a big meetup every 2 montsh
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[19:14:52] <OBudista> what's the most efficient way to insert the contents of an ArrayList into a FloatBuffer?
[19:14:53] <JNiNJA> hey
[19:15:04] <JNiNJA> some one know how to read a texture ?
[19:15:13] <OBudista> I'm trying to create a float[] but not finding a decent way
[19:15:15] <JNiNJA> and how to store it in memory ?
[19:15:43] <kappaOne> JNiNJA: see wiki for a few tutorials on that
[19:17:35] <MatthiasM> JNiNJA: http://hg.l33tlabs.org/TextureLoader/file/tip/src/de/matthiasmann/textureloader
[19:17:55] <MatthiasM> OBudista: why do you use an ArrayList in the first place?
[19:18:21] <OBudista> I'm building the cache to store the triangles that I'll use in VBO
[19:18:44] <OBudista> I don't know how many I have at first, so I'm using a dynamic array
[19:18:53] <MatthiasM> using ArrayList<Float> is a very bad idea - it has at least 5x the memory footprint of a float[]
[19:19:19] <MatthiasM> better to use a float[] and use Arrays.copyOf when it gets full
[19:19:39] <MatthiasM> or maybe even better use ArrayList<float[]> and make pages with ~1000 floats
[19:19:49] <MatthiasM> that way you can avoid nearly all data copies
[19:20:24] <OBudista> okay thanks for the tip
[19:20:40] <MatthiasM> OBudista: example of the page idea: http://hg.l33tlabs.org/javafreetype/file/f357a4c28520/src/de/matthiasmann/javafreetype/FT2Helper.java#l327
[19:21:09] <JNiNJA> PNGDecoder ?
[19:21:28] <JNiNJA> can i use some AWT's decoder ?
[19:21:39] <MatthiasM> JNiNJA: PNGDecoder is part of TWL and also availabel as separate JAR
[19:22:08] <MatthiasM> JNiNJA: why would you want to use anything from AWT?!?
[19:22:38] <JNiNJA> idk, i just know that AWT have stuff for this
[19:22:49] <MatthiasM> but not suitable for use with OpenGL
[19:22:54] <kappaOne> MatthiasM: do you have a TGADecoder?
[19:22:59] <MatthiasM> kappaOne: yes
[19:23:05] <kappaOne> MatthiasM: super cool stuff :)
[19:23:09] <MatthiasM> kappaOne: TGA, BMP, PNG and JPEG
[19:23:14] <kappaOne> Oh, lovely
[19:23:17] <kappaOne> tis the full collection
[19:23:20] <MatthiasM> all in that lib above
[19:23:29] <kappaOne> TWL?
[19:23:42] <JNiNJA> well how hard it can be ?
[19:23:56] <MatthiasM> kappaOne: http://hg.l33tlabs.org/TextureLoader/file/tip/src/de/matthiasmann/textureloader
[19:24:21] <MatthiasM> kappaOne: http://hg.l33tlabs.org/JpegDecoder/file/tip/src/de/matthiasmann/jpegdecoder
[19:24:46] <kappaOne> MatthiasM: brilliant stuff, currently writing a opengl tutorial series
[19:24:49] <kappaOne> so likely will use that lib
[19:24:55] <MatthiasM> JNiNJA: loading a PNG is nearly trivial: http://wiki.l33tlabs.org/bin/view/TWL/Using+the+TWL+PNGDecoder
[19:25:07] <kappaOne> are there any standalone jar bulids for the lib?
[19:25:13] <MatthiasM> kappaOne: not yet
[19:25:36] <MatthiasM> I could setup hudson to build it
[19:25:53] <kappaOne> yeh would be useful
[19:27:04] <kappaOne> seems like the best LWJGL OpenGL image loading library now
[19:32:35] <kappaOne> however the Texture wrapper stuff is nice but need to avoid that for now
[19:32:45] <kappaOne> since its a tutorial about opengl basics
[19:33:04] <kappaOne> so will use PNGDecoder, TGADecoder, etc directly
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[19:46:26] <MatthiasM> kappaOne: http://twl.l33tlabs.org/textureloader/
[19:47:07] <kappaOne> brilliant, thx
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[19:48:26] <kappaOne> you should maybe give it a bit more of a unique name to make it to find
[19:48:40] <kappaOne> MattDecoders, or somethings :)
[19:50:09] <MatthiasM> ...
[19:50:23] <kappaOne> guess it doesn't really matter :)
[19:50:39] <MatthiasM> every file contains my name at least 3 times - should be enough :)
[19:52:05] <kappaOne> TGADecoder.jar is missing atm
[19:52:18] <kappaOne> thats the last one i really need
[19:55:18] <MatthiasM> it's not a JAR
[19:55:48] <MatthiasM> kappaOne: use this method: http://twl.l33tlabs.org/textureloader/javadoc/de/matthiasmann/textureloader/TextureManager.html#createTextureLoader(java.net.URL)
[19:56:26] <kappaOne> ah right, got it
[19:56:58] <MatthiasM> the TextureLoader classes can be used directly - or through the TextureManager (for async texture loading)
[19:57:31] <kappaOne> ohh, cool
[19:57:33] <MatthiasM> or use http://twl.l33tlabs.org/textureloader/javadoc/de/matthiasmann/textureloader/Texture.html#loadTexture(java.net.URL)
[19:58:11] <kappaOne> didn't know there was async loading
[19:58:19] <kappaOne> pretty useful stuff
[19:58:27] <MatthiasM> :DD
[19:58:41] <MatthiasM> that's the only reason I wrote that lib in the first place
[20:01:45] <MatthiasM> that lib also uses PBO for upload if supported
[20:02:11] <kappaOne> whats the max opengl version it uses?
[20:02:47] <kappaOne> as long as its below opengl 2.0 should be good enough
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[20:13:25] <nbf> PBO was an extension until like 3.2
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[20:18:57] <monty_hall> damn, the photoshop magic lasso kicks ass.
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[20:30:05] <l3dx> maybe a stupid question, but is there something like GLM (OpenGL Mathematics) for java? I'm currently learning how to use the core profile (3.x), and am currently trying to figure out how to replace glTranslate and friends..
[20:33:07] <derBiggi> l3dx, there isn't, and it sucks
[20:33:23] <derBiggi> I have the same problem. I'm currnetly using the vecmath.jar from the java3d project
[20:33:46] <derBiggi> Ii don't really like that lib, but it does the job, more or less
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[20:44:16] <l3dx> derBiggi: ok, thanks :)
[20:45:03] <derBiggi> MatthiasM said he might have some better math library, not published and cleaned up though *hint, hint * :)
[20:45:50] <l3dx> :)
[20:46:22] <derBiggi> http://java3d.java.net/binary-builds.html
[20:46:56] <derBiggi> Thats where you can download the vecmath lib if you want to go with it... And if you find a better lib.. Please, please, let me know
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[20:50:17] <l3dx> will do!
[20:51:17] *** ra4king|afk is now known as ra4king
[20:51:24] <ra4king> what a delicious mushroom burger
[20:51:28] <ra4king> Boneheads is amazing
[20:51:33] <ra4king> anyone ever been there?
[20:53:21] <nbf> powers ferry
[20:54:43] <ra4king> nbf: whoa! that's the name of the street it's on!

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